Curse

Melody Cross · May 01, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by invsblmn

I just hope GW2 doesn't try to pander to the traditional MMORPG crowd too much and lose what made GW1 so unique. From what I've read GW2 wants to compromise. We'll see.

That sums it up for me. The WoW argument is relevant because players make it relevant. People who play WoW/MMORPGs come to GW and see "potential": the "you know; if you guys made the game work like ours, all my friends would want it" argument.

Only problem with sentiments like that is...does anyone here really want them? I know; Anet wants their money but does it want the hassle of dealing with them? Every MMO I've been in is full of jerk pre-teen 85 IQ snotnosed losers. More than not, sadly. its why I left EQ. its why I got sick of EQ2 quickly. its why I got out of Silkroad, why I avoid WoW with a passion. If the few people who publicly profess to play that game here are any clue...there are very few people in that game that I want to deal with.

I bought GW because it was different from other MMOs. Not the pay structure (though that was a factor). The 8 skill-per-bar req required thought on the part of a player when going out of town. The low level cap put players on an equal footing. The most customized player in this game is only marginally better than the worst equipped level 20 anywhere. We don't have to deal with our avatars as pokemon pocketpets; no care and feeding of magical creatures required to use your skills.

Its how Anet marketed GW. They were something different. Catering to WoW markets will do something worse than lose that.

GGs

edit: why do you people keep feeding bhavv? You know he's a troll.

Balan Makki · May 01, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I too enjoyed WoW for a time, but if anything was realized from Blizzard's years of success it was the small team of top level developers who saw things differently and left to form Arena Net and thus give us Guild Wars.

Too me, the greatness of the early Blizzard franchise still lives on in what Arena Net is now creating.

Quote:

Blizzard's next MMO will be a Guild Wars Clone.

reanimatorX · May 01, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

GW players aren't grown up either, its kinda awkward to have 12-17 year olds talking about boobies and [censored] and 2 girls 1 cup in +300 member alliance chat :\

Buster · May 01, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I played WOW for 6 months and its not a bad game but it is no Guild Wars. Guild Wars is unique in a way that it has no monthly fee and you do not feel obligated to play every single day for hours (though I am sure many do!).

For me it is the story that attracts me to the game, the more detailed look of the characters and the gameplay. Guild Wars believe it or not is an inspiration to some new games such as Hellgate and Age of Conan. Hellgate liked the way Guild Wars was instanced and chose to make it as such. Age of Conan's pvp mini games are an exact replica of Guild Wars RA and TA pvp types.

Guild Wars 2 will only appeal to the greater masses out there who play mmo games and I am sure most Guild wars players can't wait for Guild Wars 2.

Risa · May 01, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Why hello there, Bhavv. I was wondering where you went in the alliance.

I have a neutral opinion over this debate, as I have never played WoW, but from a standpoint, I would say that you shouldn't judge the games by their communities. There are horrible players and there are awesome players in GW, and I bet it's the exact same in WoW. Just because a single person ran into a better person in one game and a worse one in the other does not define the entire community of either game as a whole.

Antheus · May 01, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

The level system will rear its ugly head and all drawbacks with the next expansion (Wrath of the Lich King) in WoW even more, and the world will become larger but whole zones and tons of content useless. Silithus? Argent Dawn Reputation? Who will care about some Outland factions with WOTLK out and pre-level 60/70 areas?

Maguma Jungle called.

Same thing happened in GW. GW solved this by adding heroes. WoW solves this through level mechanics, where most of that content is/will be soloable. 20-man instances down to 5-man, etc. With next expansion, all of that will be soloable and farmable.

Different names, same thing.

Quote:

What GW does totally wrong is making endgame content optional title things like: Drinking 10.000 beer, opening 10.000 chests and so on. This ist all? This is not really a fun thing to do. If the best way to make money is farming a few spots over and over, something is wrong, too.

Agreed. The tasks themselves are barely passable, but the means of achieving them are one of the lamest I've ever seen.

Quote:

About Age of Conan: I am a huge fan of Robert E. Howard and Heroic Fantasy in general. But they are just making big promises of being different and whatever, but it just seems to be Dark Age of Camelot boiled up again. Nothing new, nothing revolutionery But with very high hardware requirements, and this will be breaking their neck. This will cost them more customers than bad visuals, I agree to the previous posters.

AoC is all hype. High demands on the system in today's PC gaming market spell the doom as well.

Reasonably low hardware demands are reason for both, GW's and WoW's success.

bhavv · May 01, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risa

Why hello there, Bhavv. I was wondering where you went in the alliance.

I have a neutral opinion over this debate, as I have never played WoW, but from a standpoint, I would say that you shouldn't judge the games by their communities. There are horrible players and there are awesome players in GW, and I bet it's the exact same in WoW. Just because a single person ran into a better person in one game and a worse one in the other does not define the entire community of either game as a whole.

Oh I wasnt juudging the game by its players, I was countering someone that said WoW community sux, GW community rules with examples of it the other way around

But I never play with anyone else in GW now, i'm just fed up of lame people groups when my H/H is waaay better and less stressful.

Wait a minute... The last time I even H/Hed anything was in.... *Gasp* March???

invsblmn · May 01, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Wow this forum is very active. It's been less than half a day and it's already a five-pager. I've read through everything and have some more thoughts.

Any time you log 1000+ hours on a game, you will break it and it will no longer be fun. It is impossible to design an endgame that will not eventually go stale, whether that endgame entails titles, dungeons, pvp, raids, whatever. This is maybe why ANet is considering an infinite level cap in GW2.

Of course there is gear elitism in GW - but I meant it in the sense of actual statistics. Skin elitism aside, the actual performance of the weapons is pretty much egalitarian.

I think many of the things people dislike about GW are fundamental design choices - the 8-skill limit, the way weapons can be modded, the weapon plateau, etc. Just because you dislike them does not mean the game is "bad." The game implemented them with the intention of being different.

Questing, which takes up a bulk of playing time, becomes completely mechanical in WoW due to the lack of scriptable events. GW's instance-only approach gives quests and missions an individual flavor which is extremely refreshing for a WoW player.

I agree that the storylines for neither game are particularly strong or memorable. But at least GW's instance-only, scripted approach give a better sense of immersion.

I have been reading the AoC previews. I wish I had time to play it when it comes out but I won't. I was in the beta weekend. My computer is less than a year old but can't run it on max settings. My personal policy is to play only one game at a time. I think I will stick to GW unless AoC is something truly special (maybe taking a slight detour for Starcraft 2).

When we talk about graphics, we need to distinguish between the technical and the artistic. GW's technical engine is three years old. It's still good but obviously not cutting-edge today. But what makes the graphics really shine is the artwork - the quality and talent of the artists to use whatever tools they have. In that sense, I think WoW also has good artwork, and I think the next expansion will have some great looking stuff.

In short, GW is great because it was innovative and took gambles that paid off. But ANet realizes that the money is not in the "avant-garde" but in the mainstream, so in GW2 they'll try to go for the persistent feel of regular MMOs. I think there is still an enormous amount of innovation left in the MMO. I really hope GW2 will continue to innovate and surprise people by doing new things rather than settling for some tried and true formula.

I have yet to encounter an MMO where the storyline rises above the usual camp and melodrama. In particular it breaks immersion to see thousands of heroes all running around saving the same world over and over again. In other worlds, the "game" (fighting mobs, tactical choices, etc) is completely separate from the storyline. You can do the former without being aware of the latter. Basically I would like to see an MMO borrow devices from games like the Witcher and implement some kind of a morality system: i.e. NPCs will behave differently around you depending on what you've done in-game. Then things will get really interesting.

bhavv · May 01, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by invsblmn

I have yet to encounter an MMO where the storyline rises above the usual camp and melodrama.

Basically I would like to see an MMO borrow devices from games like the Witcher and implement some kind of a morality system: i.e. NPCs will behave differently around you depending on what you've done in-game. Then things will get really interesting.

While GW has a story line, I never found it to be a good one. I cant remember or recall any of what happened in any of the chapters even though I watched and read every cinematic. The story line was too weak. I couldnt have cared less if the game hadnt had a story line, it would have felt exactly the same to me.

For the second point I would love to see great solo RPG's become multiplayer with nothing changed. This just means, for example, Oblivion as a multiplayer game - The exact same game but with everyone playing it at the same time. Even the original Baldurs Gate 1 + 2 redone like this with a modern graphics engine would be awesome, but not like neverwinter nights or DDO, they just ruined D+D entirely in my opinion.

I havnt played the Witcher yet, but I will try it after it goes cheap

Ctb · May 01, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

AoC is all hype. High demands on the system in today's PC gaming market spell the doom as well.

The hype around AoC reminds me of Hellgate: London.

"Oooooh, you'll be able to do FPS or melee and it will be very interactive and..."

Too bad they forgot to make the game not suck when they released it. AoC seems to me to be following the same path of the "psuedo-interactive" MMO where there are a handful of "moves" you can make, but there's not much point in actually making them for the most part.

I think of all the semi-active combat systems, Eve Online does it best. They completely eschew the notion of complete interaction and instead make a nice compromise between tactical interaction and computer-controlled battle mechanics. You don't actually fly the ship to dodge or aim, but you do have to manipulate the ship in order for it to do those things for you in an effective manner.

StormDragonZ · May 01, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

If WoW was free to play, Half of GW's population would vanish...

I'd be that half who would leave. If it's free, I play it. Otherwise, I'm not wasting money for subscription fees.

bhavv · May 01, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

The hype around AoC reminds me of Hellgate: London.

Oh please. Do me a favor and Visit the forum.

It is like over 100 times more active then Guru has ever been. You make a thread and it is buried under three pages of new and current threads in less then 5 minutes.

AoC is going to be a success. It isnt just the hype, plenty of people have been waiting for it foryears, and lots of WoW and GW players are looking for something new and brilliant. AoC is new and brilliant.

and yea, if other MMO's lost their monthly fees OR if GW had monthly fees, NO ONE would be playing GW right now.

Anyway, for people who really want to see just how great AoC really is, there is an awesome video on the combat and spellweaving sytem right here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

toastgodsupreme · May 01, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Things I miss from WoW...

Large raids against bosses that felt like bosses.
During such raids, the strategy in how to do them was always fun as well.

The auction house. Though in all honesty, I REALLY liked how Lineage2 dealt with their buy/sell thing. People set up shops to either sell or buy a certain amount of items, then could afk.

Open world with instanced dungeons. This made it so immersive for me. I've never had as much fun exploring an MMO as I did exploring the world of WoW. There was always the chance of running into some horde douche. And that made it exciting. Also, there were set paths where you could ride so you wouldn't get torn to shreds.

HawkofStorms · May 01, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Oh please. Do me a favor and Visit the forum.

It is like over 100 times more active then Guru has ever been. You make a thread and it is buried under three pages of new and current threads in less then 5 minutes.

AoC is going to be a success. It isnt just the hype, plenty of people have been waiting for it foryears, and lots of WoW and GW players are looking for something new and brilliant. AoC is new and brilliant.

and yea, if other MMO's lost their monthly fees OR if GW had monthly fees, NO ONE would be playing GW right now.

That's the definition of hype. The game isn't out yet and there are thousands of fanboys for it. You can't judge the quality of a game before it is even released.
AoC won't cipher off too many fans right away. If the game actually good and fun and there is good word of mouth, then people will move over too it. At the moment though, there are probablly a lot of people with a "wait and see" attitude who are unwilling to put down the money until they know the game will be successful. People don't want to be stuck playing Auto Assault or HGL, they want to join successful communities.
I'd be more worried about already established franchises (like Starcraft II) that will have much larger starting fanbases then AoC.

bhavv · May 01, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

That's the definition of hype. The game isn't out yet and there are thousands of fanboys for it. You can't judge the quality of a game before it is even released.

The beta has been out for months, and the NDA has been lifted. All the gossip is good so far

The game is being judged on the beta. It is being judged as awesome.

HawkofStorms · May 01, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

The beta has been out for months, and the NDA has been lifted. All the gossip is good so far

The game is being judged on the beta. It is being judged as awesome.

Ahh... alright that is a little more fair.
Still, I (and a lot of other people) are in that "wait and see" camp.

cebalrai · May 01, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I'm just waiting for Age of Conan now and can forget about every other MMO .

Most MMOs are utter crap. Keep your expectations low.

bhavv · May 01, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

Most MMOs are utter crap. Keep your expectations low.

You have most obviously missed all of the hype and information from the AoC beta. It is the total opposite of crap lol.

It didnt win a whole list of E3 awards if it is utter crap either.

Just look down the right hand side of the official page under the recognition column if you do nothing else. Look furthur into the site for more information as well if you want to:

http://community.ageofconan.com/wsp/...&template=main

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

AoC is all hype. High demands on the system in today's PC gaming market spell the doom as well.

Reasonably low hardware demands are reason for both, GW's and WoW's success.

Minimum requirements:

3.0 Ghz Pentium 4
1 Gb Ram
Geforce 6600.

How are those high demands on todays computers? Anyone that has bought a new gaming PC in the last 3 years will be able to play AoC comfortably.

Microsoft are also heavily promoting the game under their 'Games for Vista' scheme, it is currently on the top of their list for that as well.

Oh, and I just remembered a perfect example of a game with great graphics and what some would consider high system requirements at the time of its release that has done extremely well - Oblivion.

Wait, lots of people actually bought a game that wouldnt run on DX8 cards in 2006, but you dont think they arent going to do so two years later in 2008? lol.

netniwk · May 01, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

http://forums.ageofconan.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
not everyone seems that happy about it.
(ps:thread was not about Aoc)

bhavv · May 01, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

http://forums.ageofconan.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
not everyone seems that happy about it.
(ps:thread was not about Aoc)

No, we really need another 'ZOMG GW rules!!!1111' thread on guru without any critisism of the game or comparisons to other games, I think not.

And not everyone is happy about GW and / or WoW. Your point being?

And the forum right now is flooded by people trying to access the beta, probably not the best time to judge what people think when they are just posting along the lines of 'omg I cant play the game yet'

This thread (only one I can find as I posted it elsewhere) gives some insight into what players think about AoC:

http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=71986

Quote:

Originally Posted by sytto

"It feels like the love child of a Guildwars, Vanguard, Mortal Kombat theesome... with bewbies."

I'm reading allot of Guild Wars "look" similarities.